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[–]bigexplosion 29 points30 points ago

a no knock warrant in utah is the death penalty.

[–][deleted] ago

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[–]AchillesGRK 42 points43 points ago

You have no fucking clue what you are talking about. The guy was self-medicating for PTSD. While not what I would recommend he didn't deserve to be attacked. He was defending his house, against what he (and I) consider an illegal invasion. It is horrible that a man died in this, but that man came dressed for war with no reason and that was what he got. Until they stop coming after people growing a plant like this they will get none of my sympathy for what happens when they do.

[–][deleted] ago

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[–]CheckYourTotem 19 points20 points ago

Just because he never saw action doesn't mean he doesn't have PTSD. Are you a doctor? Do you have any experience with PTSD?

Also, please provide a reference to where they talk about him being addicted to several different drugs. Thanks.

[–]DarkGamer 14 points15 points ago

You won the argument--he was so humiliated he deleted his account.

[–][deleted] ago

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[–]CheckYourTotem 7 points8 points ago

You can get PTSD from a lot of different things. It's usually caused by an ultra stressful situation. People have got PTSD from car accidents before, things like that. We tend to associate PTSD with war, but it can be caused by other experiences as well.

[–]UnderdogIS 3 points4 points ago*

So many circumstance. U.S. soldiers torment other soldiers. Shit even U.S. soldiers rape other U.S. soldiers, just like in prison. A soldier, shit even a civilian stationed at a hospital can see some fucked up shit. You do not know the circumstances to reject his claim of PTSD. You don't even have to leave the United States to get PTSD. I bet this guy had some underlying psychological problem before he went to war that he never reported. I expect more from a college student, it's called critical thinking. I'm just commenting on PTSD, not any of the other circumstances.

[–]omaolligain -3 points-2 points ago

they claim he has PTSD; they did not say he was diagnosed with it... He was self-medicating for an ailment that this article does not actually confirm that he had. He shot and killed someone PTSD or not (probably not diagnosed) and did not want help with, marijuana or not, he still shot and killed someone. period.

[–]CheckYourTotem 0 points1 point ago

True, but they also riot geared up and busted into his house all because of a plant. My brother has PTSD and uses cannabis for treatment (this is in Oregon where it's legal though). He's still got some paranoia and is on disability because of his PTSD. I can guarantee you if someone started pounding on his door the first thing he'd do is grab a weapon and go into combat mode. That's what soldiers are trained to do. It's just a sad situation all around that this had to happen because of the prohibition of cannabis.

[–]omaolligain 0 points1 point ago

Except this person has no diagnosis for PTSD. He's just a soldier smoking pot who got busted (right or wrong) , and now claims to have PTSD.

And even if he did have PTSD, he still shot and killed someone. He should still go to jail. Not for smoking pot but for shooting at cops.

Yes, the prohibition of pot is horrible. But, you know what's worse? Homicide.

The jury should nullify the drug charges and then lock him away for murder.

[–][deleted] ago

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[–]IHartRed 9 points10 points ago

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Not, Post Operation Iraqi Freedom Disorder.

[–][deleted] ago

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[–]godzilladstroy 5 points6 points ago

His point is that people don't only suffer from PTSD because of wars. It can be brought on by any traumatic event.

[–]Qauzzix 3 points4 points ago

You can get PTSD from many different things. Being raped, seeing people you love die, or any other TRAUMATIC experience. What you experience does not have to be what other expect you to experience. People have different tolerance to traumatic experience. It has nothing NOTHING AT ALL to do with combat. But it's easy to get traumatized in combat. That's why soldiers often get it.

That is what IHartRed was pointing out. Read the name of the disease again and think about it. It is not Post Traumatic Combat Experience Disorder.

Here is the first sentence in the wikipedia article: "Posttraumatic stress disorder(PTSD) is a severe anxiety disorder that can develop after exposure to any event that results in psychological trauma."

[–]CheckYourTotem 6 points7 points ago

Please provide a reference. THX.

None of the articles I've read about this incident talked about him selling cannabis, having a card, or anything about how long the police knocked on his door for.

If what you are saying is true, then the case completely changes. Thanks.

[–]thumbgreen 5 points6 points ago*

Did you even read the article? (Goes for bigexplosion too)

It doesn't say in this article how long they knocked but it does say it was a "knock" arrest warrant so it wasn't a no-knock warrant. Also Utah, according to the article, doesn't have a medical program so in no way could he have a MMJ card.

No where does it mention how much he was moving if he was moving any at all. The only thing the article mentions is that according to his father he was growing for personal use.

If you are talking about something mentioned in different articles then you should post a link to those.

[–]TexDen 26 points27 points ago

If I was on the jury my vote would be not guilty.

[–]travio 7 points8 points ago

This is one of the major problems with no knock and knock and announce search warrants. There are times when these tactics make sense, but this really is not one of them. This was a single person who lived alone. A single night of surveillance could have given them enough information to create a better plan than a swat team knock and announce.

[–]AhazyKush 3 points4 points ago

But they were sloppy, and put themselves and that man into a lot of unnecessary danger. They could have waited for him to leave for work and arrested him on his way out. What the fuck?

[–]travio 2 points3 points ago

Absolutely, these warrants are meant for situations where there is a likelihood of violence or the possibility of the destruction of evidence is high. They are being overused in situations like this. From everything I have read about this case, the suspect kept to himself except to go to work. A little surveillance would have shown them this. All they would need to do was wait until he went to work and search the house then. Or wait until he left work, pull him over right outside his house and the conduct the search. I can tell you I would love to be this guy's attorney... if only I was licensed in Utah.

[–]Pendecko 15 points16 points ago

6 fully armed guys busting in on a sleeping soldier with a pistol by his bed... There's a thing called job hazards too. Thinking you're a damn commando going in to "take down" this big threat. 90% of the situation was the attitude of the cops. Also: Black guy: Cops put some crack on him, if it's a white ex military guy: oh, we found this bomb too.

[–]Dustindidit 3 points4 points ago

I think police forces, whoever is directly responsible for sending in SWAT for a drug bust should be fired, and tried in criminal court. Those five officers, while sad, are not the first victims of drug raids. The victims of drug raids are people like Jose Guerena and all the others killed without probable cause, in someone's house, people who were harming no one.

[–]dopeboyhero 2 points3 points ago

ಠ_ಠ how the fuck...is this aggravated murder? If I remember correctly the articled stated he was asleep at the time of the raid and he woke up to the sound of people trying to break into his home. What would you think? You would instinctively try to protect yourself.

I don't feel sorry for the police officers. They should fucking deny orders to raid grow-ops. Seriously, fuck off. I hope they now know the war on drugs they fight is pointless cause it left them fucked up and one comrade fucking dead.

In Vancouver the cops executed a raid on a grow op and it left FOUR officers dead. No sympathy there.

[–]jhansen858 0 points1 point ago

Just goes to show, don't fucking live in UTAH.. God damn redneck fucks go in guns blazing over a weed grow op? WTF. I'm not for cop killing but that entire situation could have been avoided if they would have just calmly knocked and let him know his house was subject to a search warrant. He probably would have given up with out a fight.

[–]VoodooIdol 9 points10 points ago

Look, folks. I'm a daily smoker and have been for 20 years. I'm all about legalization and have been fighting for it via protests (which I've been arrested for), donating to causes like NORML, etc etc. This guy is not a patient. He is a user plain and simple, just like I am. Creating bullshit article headlines like this (I'm looking at both the OP and The Daily Chronic) is not helping anyone. Be a little more honest and maybe we'll get a bit more respect.

[–]TheDailyChronic[S] 6 points7 points ago*

We adjusted our headline to read "Utah Medical Marijuana Patient Could Face Death Penalty for Killing Police Officer", as it should have read when the article was first published.

We stand by our statements that the suspect was a medical marijuana patient. Utah does not have a recognized medical marijuana program, however his family has stated that he self medicates using marijuana, which makes him a patient.

Also, all indications point that the warrant was being served due to the four marijuana plants the suspect was allegedly growing for personal use, although this has yet to be confirmed by Ogden police.

[–]IH8DwnvoteComplainrs 5 points6 points ago

You are harming the cause when you use false headlines such as these.

[–]df1 2 points3 points ago

Where the fuck are you when the government straight up lies. Nitpickers like you harm the cause.

[–]omaolligain 1 point2 points ago

I don't know about IH8DwnvoteComplainrs but, I'm usually nitpicking it.

[–]ninthaxis 1 point2 points ago

So I if I decide to self-medicate by shooting up heroin I doubt you will support me being called a morphine patient.

[–]df1 4 points5 points ago

I would support you.

[–]InOutAllAbout 3 points4 points ago

That's the pain killer industry for you. Except they swallow/snort pills. The only thing close to injecting would be those patches I guess.

This whole country is doped up on pills, alcohol, or street drugs. Why are they only going after the most benign of all the pain killers and street drugs on the market?

[–]scarlet_feather 2 points3 points ago

I don't try to tell other people how to live their lives. If that's what you want to call it, go ahead.

[–]tonitereprise 3 points4 points ago

"Since the incident, investigators have had Stewart's house blocked off with yellow police tape and have been combing through his house collecting evidence." Then exploding scary bombs to scare the neighbors, to shake up more news.

FTFY

"Since the incident, investigators have had Stewart's house blocked off with yellow police tape and have been combing through his house planting evidence."

[–]rmblinman 2 points3 points ago

I wonder if this cops family feels their loved ones death was justified and meaningful for the protection of the American people

[–]shamanicspacebum 3 points4 points ago

Goddamn fucking pigs deserve the death penalty.

[–]mus1c 2 points3 points ago

The subject line was pretty different than the story. I was expecting a story about some poor guy with an MMJ card getting busted for some form of possession and being possibly sentenced to death for it(which would be outrageous_. What I read was a dude who killed a cop. Story line should really be "Utah man who killed cop faces death penalty, also loved trees-but hey who doesn't?"

[–]AnnArchist 19 points20 points ago

He killed someone who was conducting a home invasion

[–]omaolligain -4 points-3 points ago

He killed a cop enforcing a warrant for something he was actually doing.

Agree with the law or not. It still exists and as long as it does your actions still have potential repercussions. You're foolish to think otherwise.

[–]AnnArchist 2 points3 points ago

They chose an irresponsible way to enforce the warrant.

[–]df1 2 points3 points ago

I'm glad the terrorist cop is dead. It was self defense.

[–]cbranden 2 points3 points ago

I am glad the terrorist cop is dead also. Too bad he didn't clean up and kill more of those worthless dicks.

[–]Fluck 5 points6 points ago

A group of armed, armored men bust down the door to a man's home in the middle of the night: a man with prior mental illness who has been trained by the government to kill and react to threats with deadly force.

This man - again, TRAINED to react with deadly force when threatened in this way (trained to do that shit to supposedly defend YOU) - was defending himself from a group of fully armed people unjustifiably invading his house.

I feel a great deal of sympathy for all of the families involved but those police officers are much more culpable for this disgusting tragedy than a man who was just trying to defend himself, in his own home, from armed aggressors who were probably wearing black masks and screaming demands as they smashed down his doors and pointed their guns at him. Any rational, capable person would react the same way if woken by a group of armed invaders... including those police officers who were entirely aware of the potential ramifications of their actions.

This innocent man had his home invaded for no good reason by a group of armed thugs and he reacted like any human being would react when threatened - by defending himself. He has done absolutely nothing wrong; he was merely defending himself. The police are entirely responsible for this tragedy.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

Utah man who killed an intruder while protecting his home faces death penalty

FTFY

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

it was most likely a no knock warrant, especially if they were suited up in full gear. They have done this shit in the past. Most likely a police cover up to justify the cop being killed and hopefully demonizing the defendant for a guilty plead. Typical shitty reporting and corruption of the police story. Police state yes it is.

[–]ninthaxis 0 points1 point ago

Read the fucking article you twit.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

I did you ignoramus, i also can't go a week w/o hearing about police corruption scandals. They planted the evidence (bomb), most likely wasn't a "knock" and the guy thought he was being robbed. wtf you on.
How about you read every other article out there about police killing ppl or planting evidence for illegal searches. They may have had a warrant, AS a "knock" but who pulls a gun on ppl who have knocked ????, they kicked down the door and was fired on.

[–]neurolux 4 points5 points ago

This guy is a Patriot.

[–]tokeable 4 points5 points ago

to bad all the cops didn't die

[–]anonysera 5 points6 points ago

wow......

[–]df1 1 point2 points ago

I'm with you.

[–]blanketjackson -4 points-3 points ago

Amen.

[–]jefflololol 1 point2 points ago

Absolutely ridiculous. They don't bother to find out that he has mental problems and is likely asleep before busting in? They were almost asking for it imo

[–]PixelDJ 1 point2 points ago

Police in Utah kicked in my door and pointed a gun at my (sleeping) little brother (who was living with me) over 3 grams or so of marijuana that was in my bathroom. They don't mess around here.

[–]f00sion 1 point2 points ago

That is so frightening, why not move?

[–]PixelDJ 0 points1 point ago

Because I have a good job and family here. I do want to move, but it will take some time first.

[–]yppans -1 points0 points ago

No one will probably read this comment anyway, but the amount of people here celebrating a dead cop is really sickening. I've been raided. Yes, it sucks. No, it's not fair. SWAT teams aren't known for their people skills.

Aside from whatever situation, a person is dead. Someone's son, dad, husband, brother, and/or friend left for work that morning and is never coming back. Anyone who takes joy out of that, for whatever reason, is in need of a serious reality check.

[–]tristanimator 0 points1 point ago

Imagine this was all about an unpaid parking ticket.....

Now realize marijuana prohibition is less enforced than unpaid parking tickets in some countries.

[–]Nathan_BS 0 points1 point ago

Well this explains why my sister's anti-marijuana boyfriend tried to tell me about "a guy who was only high and shot and killed somebody". The only thing I could argue was that correlation didn't imply causation, because I didn't think anybody still believed in Reefer Madness.

Of course I had been out of the marijuana news loop for a few months, so this was a pretty big wake-up call, in a sense.

[–]Thalassian 0 points1 point ago

Yo, it likely has nothing to do with the marijuana, this guy has post traumatic stress syndrome. The police broke in while he was sleeping (when he's at his most vulnerable), likely triggering flashbacks.

[–]Nathan_BS 0 points1 point ago

That actually does sound reasonable, in his mind he might have woken up back in the middle-east, thinking his squad got a surprise attack. It sickens me to think somebody would turn this into a "reefer madness" story without even taking factors such as PTS into consideration.

[–]ninthaxis -2 points-1 points ago

If the guy didn't like the strict enforcement of marijuana laws he could have moved to a state that did. If you aren't willing to deal with the consequences of your civil disobedience, then don't fucking coming crying when shit goes down.

[–]Fluck 4 points5 points ago

Yeah, if Rosa Parkes didn't like sitting at the back of the bus she should have just moved to a country that treated blacks with dignity.

All those criminals in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia who ruined everything by protesting and blocking the streets cause they didn't like the government's policies should have just gone elsewhere.

Also, FUCK YOU GANDHI. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN GET THE FUCK OUT OF INDIA.

No, seriously though, you're right. I mean, the Boston Tea Party, Susan B Anthony and Thích Quảng Đức only ever broke the law and breaking the law is wrong.

So if you don't like the law, just go away and let the people you leave behind suffer.

[–]ninthaxis -2 points-1 points ago

Like I said, if you're not willing to deal with the reprecussions of your civil disobedience then gtfo. Rosa Parks was willing to accept the consequences of her actions and so was Ghandi.

[–]Fluck 2 points3 points ago

Okay, so if the cops aren't ready to deal with the consequences of enforcing unjust laws with brutal, violent force, they need to gtfo and not involve themselves in invading the houses of innocent, sleeping people?

It seems like you just want to find a way to excuse the atrocious and despicable behaviour of Utah police who invade people's homes with guns drawn ready to kill, over trivially idiotic things. Yet, an innocent man who has harmed no one and showed no signs of any intention to do so is being blamed for defending himself against a group of armed thugs who smashed down his doors and invaded his house while he was sleeping.

The man did absolutely nothing wrong other than smoke some weed, but the police decided it was necessary to involve a large group of violent men with deadly weapons in a course of extreme, unwarranted antagonism, against someone trained - like them - to defend himself against such threats.

I feel great sympathy for the families of the victims but absolutely no sympathy for the police involved, much like I would feel no sympathy if you were killed in one of the no-knock warrants against the wrong house... like these guys, who might have shared your perspective until they were killed for absolutely no reason whatsoever:

http://newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/6133/SWAT-raid-wrong-house-shoot-little-girl-in-head-killing-her-AE-capture-the-whole-thing-on-camera.aspx

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2004438/SWAT-team-shot-Iraq-war-vet-Jose-Guerena-cleared.html

[–]tokeable 0 points1 point ago

I thought it might be funny to go ask police to donate to his defense fund

[–]ninthaxis -5 points-4 points ago

Can't rationalize with the ignorant (aka you).

[–]Fluck 5 points6 points ago

Or you just don't have any ground to stand on to argue a point because you're coming from a position of selfishness, subservience and ignorance... whereas I have an unlimited supply of examples of how the behaviour you're defending directly causes a great amount of pain and suffering and death.

Because there's absolutely no justification - not a single piece of defensible evidence of any positive effect whatsoever - for the military style raids of US drug cops... while every week there's a story about innocent people being murdered by over-zealous cops breaking into people's houses and shooting everyone?

Feel free to try to "rationalize" if you truly believe you can, but it's pretty obvious you have spent too much of your time sucking the cock of authority to ever "rationalize" any novel thoughts for yourself anyway... though I guess to laity like you "rationalize" simply means to employ cognitive dissonance to have reality agree with your irrational presuppositions.

[–]ninthaxis -5 points-4 points ago

Save it kid. I've spent more time on the opposite end of authority than you can even dream of. I have made no position on the drug war (which I don't support) as it isn't relevant to this article. What is relevant is a man shooting on officers performing a legal search warrant on his residence for breaking the law. You can accuse me of "sucking the cock of authority" but until you've spent time in prison I don't think you have any ground to stand on. You are the one arguing out of emotion instead of logic and fact. Just as there are many stories of cops murdering and torturing people (sometimes innocent) there are also stories such as these, of individuals illegally and unjustly murdering an officer. What you seem to forget is police officers are human beings, just like this soldier was. It was not right for him to start firing upon people he had not identified, and most states laws will not grant him pardon for that. You do not have all the facts in the matter (neither do I) yet you are hell bent on demonizing the officers and making a saint of some weed smoker, just because the guy was a weed smoker. Yes, marijuana has a shit ton of benefits (it also has consequences), but to blindly support someone just because they smoke is reckless and irresponsible. You, however, don't seem to have any sort of logic or intelligence to the subject. This guy is self-medicating, he must be a good guy and cops are always evil, nasty creatures who deserve whatever harm comes their way. That mentality is left for scum.

[–]OprahOfUpvotes -1 points0 points ago

While this is just another example on how fucked up the war on drugs is... this guy is not a MMJ patient. He was self medicating with MJ in a state where MMJ doesn't exist. I'm sorry but laws are laws, no matter how fucked up they are. I live in UT, I smoke MJ and I understand the consequences. The cops were stupid for not doing more investigation as to who this guy was and attempting to arrest him in a more reasonable fashion.

I'm not saying that this guy deserves the death penalty for shooting the cops and defending his home; he's just another smoker, for "medical" reasons or not, who's getting fucking over by an unjust system. What I am saying is he was doing something illegal and the cops were doing their jobs.

I know this will probably receive a lot of hate. Bring on the downvotes.

[–]Fluck 6 points7 points ago*

What I am saying is he was doing something illegal and the cops were doing their jobs.

This could easily be talking about a disobedient Jew in Nazi Germany. Following Judaism is breaking the law but the SS were just doing their jobs.

Laws are laws and that's why Gandhi, Susan B Anthony and the Boston Tea Party should have just shut up, accepted the "law" and left well enough alone.

No, but seriously: laws are laws and that's why protesters who are blocking streets protesting in Syria should be shot and killed. Because nothing is more important than laws, especially not analysing or - god-forbid - criticizing them or their authors in any way.

SOPA will soon be a law. The NDAA is (almost?) a law. The patriot act is a law. This is a law.

People who have no concern for the life or welfare of others - like the officers involved in this home invasion - should not be mourned when they die in the violence they instigate. Society improves slightly every time someone so callously evil passes on. And let me be clear: by participating in these brutal break-ins, each individual officer involved in these violent raids is expressing his/her complete contempt for human life and only the police abstaining or preventing these raids are exempt from the blanket category of "evil cunt of a human being". Like Nuremberg, "just taking orders" and "just doing my job" are pathetic attempts at excusing evil behaviour.

[–]OprahOfUpvotes -2 points-1 points ago

Just the kind of response I expected. I'm not saying that the laws are just and that what the cops did was just, even if they are doing their jobs. I don't think what happened should have happened as much as the next guy.

Laws are laws, I break em everyday. I understand the consequences of what I am doing. These people are doing their jobs because that's what they are paid to do. Same with the Nazis, police in Syria and every other example you provided. I wasn't saying that they are correct in their actions, but they were doing what they were told to do. Again, I don't condone anything that happened.

Laws are laws and that's why Gandhi, Susan B Anthony and the Boston Tea Party should have just shut up, accepted the "law" and left well enough alone. No, but seriously: laws are laws and that's why protesters who are blocking streets protesting in Syria should be shot and killed. Because nothing is more important than laws, especially not analysing or - god-forbid - criticizing them or their authors in any way.

No where did I say that just because a law is law means it should be upheld or should even be law... I don't understand where you got that from. I have nothing but respect for Gandhi, Susan B Anthony and the Boston Tea Party, along with the protesters in Syria, the US and everywhere else. Shit needs to change so shit like this doesn't keep happening.

Police who have no concern for the life or welfare of others - like the ones involved in this home invasion - deserve to be killed in the violence they instigate. Society improves slightly every time someone so callously evil passes on.

I completely agree with you.

[–]Frankeh1 0 points1 point ago

"Utah Medical Marijuana Patient"

"self-medicates with marijuana"

So which one is it?

[–]StaticBolt -3 points-2 points ago

Miss-leading title, post loses all credibility.

[–]PandaHysteria -3 points-2 points ago

Jesus fucking christ, this the most misleading title ever.