Gender and games.

oblivious_oblivion · 7 months

I played a female warlock in WoW. She was a witch. Affliction spec'd and a name pertaining to disease. Gender was a novelty. It was probably my 10th or so character, but the one I played the most.

For Mass Effect, I prefer Fem-Shep, she's more of a badass on renegade. Renegade Male Shepherd is more of a douche than badass.

For FO: New Vegas, on my umpteenth playthrough, I started a female unarmed because: 1) Attempting a romance with Veronica, which probably won't work out because, 2) I want to be the first female Centurion (I don't even know if this is possible, and frankly, I'd rather find out myself), so I'm working the Legion storyline.

Bottom line, as a straight male, female characters are purely novel, with exceptions for different storylines and outcomes. It is cool that some games offer the option of female, instead of having all male protagonists.

As to your quarrel of sniper classes built like tanks, well, actual snipers are in fucking excellent shape. Try low crawling for a mile, with a 30-pound weapon+ammo+gear, to your first position, then another to your next, and not expect to have some body mass.

DevilPliers · 7 months

I'm a girl and I play as a girl, and I know guys who play as girls.. we do it for the same reason. Their clothes are cuter. Dressing them up is part of the whole game for some reason. I also never play tanks, but I never thought much about that.

Tehan · 7 months

I'll admit that there's definitely over-exaggerated male protagonists if you go looking for them - Gears of War leaps immediately to mind - but it's hardly the majority. Would you call Ezio Auditore excessively masculine? Gordon Freeman? Sam Fisher? Michael Thorton? Insert-Name-Here Shepard? Most of the time male protagonists are fit but not bulky and pretty even-tempered, outside of the over-the-top AAA shooters and games derived from Warhammer 40k.

If you keep running into two-dimensional overly-muscled roid-raging protagonists, maybe it's more about what games you're playing than about the gaming industry as a whole.

moarroidsplz · 7 months

Well while male characters are often built like tanks, females often don't have big-enough muscles and have humongous, unsupported boobs.

However, in games like Mass Effect and KOTOR, I've noticed this really hasn't been a problem for either gender. On the other hand, fighting games perpetuate this stereotype to the extreme.

I guess it all depends on which games you play.

Syke042 · 7 months

Something I noticed while playing WoW:

A lot of my male friends will have several characters, both male and female. When talking about them, the male characters are refered to in the first person; the women in the third. For example:

"Hey, we need another player for the raid tonight. Do you want to come?"

"Yeah, sure. I'll bring Spank. I think when I logged out I was near Orgrimmar. I just got great sheild. It's awesome. I can really take a beating while using it. " vs,

"Yeah, sure. I think I left Stabatha in Orgrimmar. I'll switch over to her. I got her a new dagger on the auction house. She looks awesome with it."

It seems that when playing men they were becoming the character; It was a personification of them. Whereas, with a female character, they were the controlling a character who wasn't them.

xgp15a-ii · 7 months

I'm a male. A long time ago, I mocked a fellow WoW player who would speak at length about how he would only play as attractive female characters in games, and he wouldn't play some games if he couldn't create a reasonably attractive female avatar. Somehow (I have no idea how), today I've pretty much ended up exactly where he was. I always play female when given the choice to create my own character. I don't play too many games at all anymore -- mostly just RPGs -- and when I do see a game where I can't play as a female I usually don't even care to try it out. I don't even worry about making my character overly attractive, either; I don't worry about make up or anything special like that, either. Most of my characters are reasonably athletic-looking, extremely "plain-Jane" characters without anything even approaching ridiculous/hypersexualized proportions. So... if it's not about sexualization, why do I feel compelled to play the female characters? Goodness, I even play as the girl in Left 4 Dead and Borderlands, even though they are 1st person and player appearance means absolutely nothing. Goodness, I'm weird.

yeah, I probably have some sort of peculiar mental disorder -- one that causes me to only enjoy my gaming when playing female characters. I don't dwell on it, though; it's just my hobby, right? Perfectly healthy and harmless.

number1hitjam · 7 months

I dunno, I think the main weirdness stems from how oversexualized most female characters are in games. In an Elder Scrolls game or Demon Souls, playing as a female isn't weird because they're modestly dressed.

knellotron · 7 months

The only reason I played Fallout 3 as a male is because the beard selections are so comprehensive.

7he_Sama · 7 months

I play as a girl because I wish I was a girl.

onthedroidx · 7 months

I really think that male characters are becoming over-masculine in games, but I'm also afraid of female characters becoming over-feminine as well. Thankfully games are starting to avoid the costumes that only cover boobs and ass but it's still damn annoying for both sexes.

We need some mix-up here. More characters that embody normal, realistic traits rather than the I-spend-eight-hours-at-the-gym look. It's depressing. I must admit I like a bit of muscle on a man, but overly masculine characters are pretty damn scary (unless that type of character is spaced out sparsely throughout the game).

I believe we should just call for more varied character designs for both genders. I think having varied body types is just as important (usually) as varied personalities. Fat, thin, muscled, short, tall. Just throw it alllll in.

There is a way for a character to be masculine without spouting testosterone from their eyeballs. And to be feminine without showing off assets.

squidwalk · 7 months

I hope this isn't boiling things down too much, but I don't think games uniquely portray gender more than any other media.

The first thing that came to mind after reading the OP's article is the current discussion about the new DC comics. A lot of women found them alienating, because they catered to an audience of men who enjoy objectifyingly unrealistic female forms. This is an audience, and comics and games both cater to it extensively. There's still a lot of great stuff in both media that doesn't follow such ideals.

I follow the old adage "vote with you wallet." I don't like how many media objectify women, so I don't spend money on the parts that do this.

incestprincess · 7 months

There was an interesting post on Reddit about this a while ago but I'm so terrible at searching that I doubt I would be able to find it. But it was exploring and dissecting the different reasons why characters in western video games are so overly macho and masculine, where as in eastern video games (Japan being the obvious example) this is not the case! I feel like it might just be an extension of our society and culture, and how it is marketed to us. Everything is very extreme. Men are these ripped, manly, bulging beacons of masculinity. Women are curvy, sexual, and have gorgeous hair and make up. Those "standards" kind of exist in everything- advertising, movies, television, books, and video games.

I am a girl but I usually choose to play as a male character in games that give you the option... I never thought about it too much before. Probably for similar reasons that you mentioned in your post though- nearly every female character has to pander to the ideal female stereotype. Huge boobs, barely any armor, perfect hair, little button nose..things like that. There's nothing wrong with that (just wanted to stress that!) but I feel like as a female I'm completely saturated with that ideal look in almost every other aspect of my life! So when I'm trying to have fun I don't want to see it there as well. Sort of like your reasoning but flipped: instead of too macho and tank-ish, it's too feminine and sexual.

[deleted] · 7 months

So it begs the question

I'm going to be that guy and point out "begs the question" does not mean "raises the question."

seventeenfrogs · 7 months

Where the choice is offered, and it seems like the game takes it seriously as a different role (Mass Effect vs Diablo), I'll pick to play female most of the time. I'm a guy.

I've tried to work out why I do this, often it comes down to being more interesting. I'm tired of generic white 25 years old males saving the universe. I tend to become more attached in regards to the role I play within the game, not because "oh gosh, she's hot" but rather due to the the way it feels more realistic somehow. I'll play the role of that character where possible.

Perhaps it's because I just find it more difficult to identify with a character that looks and acts the same in 90% of the games I've seen or played.

tldr; I fight for feminism

Agret · 7 months

Male characters are too macho.

Female characters are too objectified.

/thread

baultista · 7 months

I wrote a paper on something similar to this in an English class I took in university. My thesis was based more on the effect that the portrayal of the two genders had on enforcing gender roles, but I did get to touch a little bit on why the genders are chosen to be portrayed the way they are.

The character you play is under your control. That character is simply an embodiment of yourself in the game world, since his actions are controlled almost entirely by you. A mental link is formed between yourself and the character you portray, where your attitudes and motives are shared. If your character is given a personality, that personality becomes part of you for the playthrough. The characters are often over-exaggerated because that's who the devs feel that the gamer wants to be. When you're playing Gears of War you want to be a rugged war hero, so Epic brings a lot of that out with their aesthetic style.

Also, don't forget that the game industry is still a bit of a boys club. While the number of female gamers is increasing rapidly, the number of female game developers isn't growing quite as fast. Female game producers, executive producers, or even higher-ups are very few and far between. This is where a lot of the decision-making is happening with regards to who the game should target and how it should target them.

ONeill101 · 7 months

I always made casters females since dudes look weird wearing the dress-like robes.

Cerubellum · 7 months

It depends what you view the character you are making as. If you view the character as yourself, the arguments brought up in the OP make sense , but if you are making up a personality for your avatar that is not you, then that is a different matter.

When I make a character in an RPG I will make up a character and act as that character would, rather than how I would act or gaming the system. I think this is close to the classical definition of role-playing and in a sense what I am doing is using the game to flesh out my idea of what the character I have made up is like by adding context.

stoneage7 · 7 months

I always wondered what goes through the minds of people who look at the character creation screen in WoW and tell to themselves "Yes, I want to be a MALE Blood Elf."

Jacqland · 7 months

I'm a girl that plays as a girl because 90% of the time I don't have a choice and am forced to play as a male. Though I understand the arguments about female vidya characters being unrealistic, it doesn't bother me because nobody's realistic in video games. Though I'm not a fan of the reinforcement of stereotypes that games do, it doesn't bother me as much as when I see those same stereotypes in other media. Games are by definition unrealistic, and I'm okay with that for the most part.

I'm a bit sorry to say it, but a part of me thinks it's interesting that this really strict archetype for male characters is in video games. Men enjoy a lot wider range of acceptable body shapes/clothing/lifestyles/etc than women in other aspects of media, so maybe a narrow stereotype in games can help some men see just how unfair the standards for women can be.

edit for clarity because I was confusing people.

ponzicar · 7 months

It seems gamers still have quite a few gender issues to work out.

Homophobia makes some guys shy away from playing as a woman because it's virtual crossdressing, while others never play as guys because they don't want to stare at a guy's ass all day. You can't really win when it comes to idiots like that.

Over sexualized female protagonists like Bayonetta are defended as being parodies, or their fighting abilities are supposed to make them strong women, and yet they still have the bodies of supermodels and the game was clearly programmed to show off their bodies. Why are there no mainstream games where the main character is a hot guy in a banana hammock, who shows off most of his ass when he does a special move?

And then there's the issue of scantily clad women on game box art and advertisements. When gamers of all ages have an entire internet filled with porn at their fingertips, why does anyone pay any attention to a few women shaped polygons wearing bikini shaped textures? Are gamers really so easily led around by their dicks?

ThreeBigTacos · 7 months

My buddy usually plays as female characters, and he's straighter than an arrow. RE5- Sheva, Dead Island - a female character, the only game I've seen him be a male character (by choice rather than by default) is in Gears 3. I've never questioned him on it, but I don't see anything wrong with it.

Any stranger online, I'm not going to just say "LOL YOU FAG, YOUR A GIRL BUT A MAN, WHAT A FAG LOL". That's just inhuman, rather, I just shrug it off and usually joke saying something like 'Dude you make a hot female', or 'Man, your voice doesn't match your character'. Just stupid little jokes to tip off I'm friendly.

Answering your question: To put it bluntly, Sex Sells. The manly characters must have some appealing qualities, while the female characters have to appeal. For whatever reason, society eats it up.

DarkHeretic56 · 7 months

See, I am a guy and I do this too, but the reasoning is sort of mixed. And it's not like I always choose female characters for everything either. It's sorta weird. I know TimeSplitters was the game where I started playing female characters a lot more. I think after that I just sorta picked them more cause... well it's a change from the norm. So many characters in games are guys by default, so every now and then when you do get a choice it's kinda refreshing to play a game from a female perspective. And then in games with heavy stories like Dragon Age and Mass Effect I try out both genders just so I can hear how the different actors portray the role. I think overall I just like that change in perspective. Video games provide a level of immersion that you can't really get from other mediums, and that really helps you get that unique perspective even more.

EmoryM · 7 months

Games use stereotypes because it cuts down on the need for exposition. That being said, I'm a dude so I play as dudes whenever possible. Except in SMB2 - Princess Toadstool is just OP.

hakkzpets · 7 months

You get a shitload of free stuff by playing as a girl.

kassieplx · 7 months

I agree with your assessment that some roles are stereotypically portrayed as 'male roles', while other are 'female roles'. Tell someone you're playing a tank? 99% of the time they'll picture a male. I feel like these roles are reinforced in games like Torchlight, Diablo, etc. where the character classes have fixed genders. It is a little problematic, and while I genuinely do like playing delicate female characters with stereotypical 'feminine roles' (as, despite my ranting, I am a fucking poster child for gender normative behavior), I think that if you want to play a female orc tank or whatever, you should be allowed to.

That being said, I find that overly-masculine male characters are often found in games that have overly- feminine female characters. I think that speaks more to a type of game that makes every single character over the top, though there are definitely exceptions. That trend is also generally not one I'm a fan of, as it doesn't really make for interesting characterization or character development (the exception to that being when game developers intentionally make everyone exaggerated for humor's sake, like in games like Bayonetta.)

Contralto · 7 months

I am a female that plays as a female, because I AM the hero. I play games to enjoy them first and to save the world second.

Samus was something of an idol to me growing up.

choopie · 7 months

Maybe American gamers hate going out of their little boxes of gender stereotypes, so the only way to play as someone other than a big hulking mass is to play a girl. Every time the discussion of jRPGs come up, there are always comments mocking the characters for being too girly and effeminate. Also, IIRC there was a controversy over WoW's male blood elves, where they had to change the model into something more bulky because nobody wanted to play a "gay" looking guy.

But IMO, I wish there were more feminine male and masculine female characters in games.

[deleted] · 7 months

I wish there was more variety with both genders. Though, there tend to be more games where you can play normal average-guy (Silent Hill is the first one that comes to mind), while every female is the same body type (Thin, big tits) with small variation (Thin, small tits).

Basically what I'm saying is that I want dumpy housewife to fight zombies and boring mcofficejob to beat up aliens.

crashusmaximus · 7 months

I have one friend who frowns on this and refers to it as manjina. He always told me that if your avatar was supposed to be an idealization of yourself, than by using a gender opposite your own was a display of sexual confusion.

However, I also have another good friend who seems to doomed to be forever alone; he often uses an excellent justification for using an avatar of the opposite gender; "hey, I'm going to be staring at that characters backside for hours; might as well make sure it's a good one to stare at."

muoncat · 7 months

I have about a 50:50 split between male and female characters in all the RPGs I play. I do it because it gives me more options for roleplaying. If I'm in the act of making stuff up anyway, why should I limit myself to just one gender?

also it's usually more interesting to play dress-up on women, and that's like half the fun :P

44Dave · 7 months

I will usually choose a woman because that is as escapist/opposite of my life as I can be.

Gungnir111 · 7 months

Both genders are oversexed in modern games. Guys are built like tanks, with limbs like tree-trunks, and chicks have massive boobs, dress in sub-optimal clothing, and are skinny as fuck.

Narrative_Causality · 7 months

I've heard a couple of responses...(such as) the rather odd "I'm roleplaying. I like it this way"

On behalf of roleplayers everywhere, fuck you.

arrjayjee · 7 months

I prefer to play females because kick-ass chicks amuse me and turn me on. A nordic girl whacking Daedra with a massive axe, or a FemShep in tight-fitting armour sniping aliens from a distance is both attractive and cool and awesome.

Plus, if I'm going to be staring at someone's ass for hours on end, I'd like it to be a cute chick.

Servalpur · 7 months

The avatars are used to portray what society considers to be attractive, because no one wants to spend their money or time on a game that makes them feel unattractive or ruins their escapism. Modern games exist to make money, so they create an avatar with which the majority of their consumers will want to play with, so they can get sales.

Also, the same things influence the female avatars as well, only generally it's not female opinion driving those avatars, it's male. You think most women want to play as a scantily clad warrior women? Probably not. They might want to play as warrior women, but the vast majority of women I know would rather have a decent pair of armor, rather than a breastplate that barely covers the actual breasts.

anon97 · 7 months

Yeah, I started playing female characters in WoW because the male characters look absolutely ridiculous in that game. The females (with the exception of anorexic-looking blood elves) are at least realistically believable. It felt backwards at first, but that wore off quickly. Now I commonly choose to play as female characters in other games. They just look nicer, even when they aren't some kind of pinup model. On a related note, I noticed that the death sounds my female Spartan made in Halo were much less rage-inducing than the male death sounds. I never expected that.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the only time playing as a female feels weird is when someone starts flirting. Whether it's some desperate dude on WoW who thinks he's talking to a girl or some hotshot male NPC, that gets really awkward. I just avoid that when I can.

bharder · 7 months

I'm male and I guess I play as a male character because it's easier for me to identify with. I don't role play, but in MMOs I tend to give my avatar "character" in the same way that people think of their pets as having character. I tried rolling a female avatar in WOW once and I abandoned it because it felt dishonest.

Outside of MMOs it doesn't really matter to me. If the protagonist is female and it's a good story/game, then great. But if the story is gender neutral and I have a choice I'm going to play a dude. I don't think all people choose characters the same way though. ie: identity, quantitative advantage, rping, cartoon porn, latent homosexuality, etc.

dragossk · 7 months

I remember there being some problems in my guild when I played WoW when someone who claimed was a girl wasn't actually a girl with a "oh, i thought we were roleplaying" when it blew out of proportion. This was on a non RP server. Apparently he was given access to the girls only chat used to discuss private stuff.

I did catch on earlier it was a guy, after some stuff he said during some raid in warrior chat, but I had never been bothered about it.

As for me, I use male char for MMO, followed by Warrior type = male , Ranged/Mage = Female which I also use on SP games. Now that I look back at it, I do seem to play a lot of ranged.

AnotherWorthlessFuck · 7 months

I don't honestly know why I play as a female character more often. Generally it goes like this;

is there cool facial hair for males? if yes, then I am a male if no, then I usually play a female, unless they look incredibly horrible.

jmarquiso · 7 months

When a friend of mine and I were playing the DCUO Beta, my wife looked over my shoulder and equated it to playing dress-up with dolls. I had to admit, she had a point.

As for me, I switch in between male and female avatars. I would like to see more female characters in single player games, but apparently they don't sell well.

LivingReceiver · 7 months

Whenever I play Gears of War online now I use a female character because they are half the size of the male characters. It's always just felt weird looking at the men in those games. They never explain it in the lore why all the Cog characters are so chunky.

Ruiner66 · 7 months

I usually will do a mixture of both spread out among all my characters. I myself don't actually role play, so I never saw the issue. But some odd people get all bent out of shape about gender matching characters which I find hilarious.

Promethium · 7 months

I play a Human Male in real life. Why would I (role)play one in a video game?

abovewisdom · 7 months

As a mid 20s male myself I have also wondered why I choose female characters in some of my games but not in others. What I love is that you do have the choice a lot of times. Sometimes I feel like playing the burly male and sometimes I feel like playing as a girl. I think the reason they the stereotypes exist is it gives you a way to be something you are not. Maybe you have no muscles in real life but in the game you can be buff as a body builder. That appeals to a majority of gamers. Personally I'd love to see more games that don't play to the safe side or at least would give you a choice.

adelaidelaide · 7 months

Depends entirely on the culture from which the game comes from and where the person who is playing it grew up as well as their own idiosyncrasies. For example, compare TERA with WoW. The reasons will vary person to person.

I play as a girl because I am one (unless it is gender locked like in Dragon Nest) and I often play Tank or healer because I like the gameplay.

I know guys who will NEVER play a female role just because the idea of masquerading as a female repulses them. People have different tastes. My idea of a good time: Play and choose whatever makes you happy.

Captain_Midnight · 7 months

Gaming is partly escapist fantasy. It allows to do things we never would or could do in real life, or it gives us access to extremes that we would never otherwise experience. It gives us a novelty factor, too. In persistent online games, it gives us a costume to wear -- an alternate identity we can use for a while and have fun with. As the saying goes, most people are pretty average. Gaming allows you to pretend that you're not.

A testosterone-fueled, gravelly-voiced avatar brimming with grim determination and piles of ammo is often ridiculous. But in moderation, it can be at least a guilty pleasure.

cuddlyogre · 7 months

The reason everyone looks the same in any type of visual media is because most artists are taught from the same school of thought. They are almost always told to exaggerate the features of the heroes and villains to make them stand out. The idea is that if your hero looks just like a stand-in then the viewer may be confused as to who to pay attention to.

If I were in that position I would hope that my readers or watchers or whatevers were more intelligent than that. And if I had doubts, I would employ other methods to differentiate my character from similar looking actors. If that means washing out the color of background characters of not allowing them to take up to much screen space then that's what has to be done. The characters I come up with do not follow the accepted practices for physique. I make sure that they have the type of body they would have realistically developed. Anything else feels cheap and overdone.

A fast fighter does not look like Ryu or Chun Li from Street Fighter 4. All that bulk does i slow you down. Ivy's features from Soul Caliber would be an awful weakness in battle, whereas Link in the Zelda series would be far more suited in the tasks he performs.

Antikristus · 7 months

I don't really play rpg's or anything like, but when I do, I usually play as a male, trying to make the character like me (because I'm fucking awesome) but some games don't even give you the option to play as a long haired dude, or do it poorly. So I'm usually the long haired guy in the long coat, but sometimes when it doesn't look good I make random choices.

I have had female characters in some games, usually just to check what's the female creator like or sometimes the game is just better as a chick. Like in Mass Effect, the female voice acting is told to be superior to the male one. (And the male looks awful IMO, the same meat head than in every other shooter and it's not really that customizable.)

And if the female body is done nicely, it's can be a pleasure to watch, sure.

Sheol · 7 months

When playing games, my younger brother would always choose the female characters, we used to tease him a little it for it here and there. Now as a teenager he is openly gay. I don't really have a conclusion to draw, but I think it might add something to the conversation.

looooooooooooooooool · 7 months

To be fair... the body required to preform in a video game would definitely lean towards the fairly muscular side. You know how awesome my quads would be if I squatted as much as they did in gears of war? While videogames might be reinforcing masculinity stereotypes, they really only emphasize the physical aspects.

Now female videogame rolemodels are completely unrealistic. At least male rolemodels encourage a physical well-being. The ladies though... Lets get past the ridiculous exaggerated busts, you expect me to believe she's being that physically active and still skinny as a twig?! Fuck that. She can swing a sword, take a hit and still stay standing in heels? Fuck that. I get that videogames are a fantasy, but if there's any detrimental stereotypes... the ladies get the worst.

If you give me a skinny Ezio, there had better be a minigame to help him struggle up a ledge.

Joking aside, I would really love to see a game where you change over the course... Like if you started off skinny, but slowly bulked up throughout the game.

CapnSammich · 7 months

I disagree, undead males make great rogues and aren't built like tanks :V

Merew · 7 months

I'm a guy who plays a girl because it's interesting. In games where gender accounts for what equipment you wear, female clothing is usually cheaper. In games where being different genders gives you different dialog, I already know what a guy would do in those situations so there's no difference there. It gets awkward in rpgs that let you have a girlfriend though, unless the girls aren't interesting.

[deleted] · 7 months

It depends, really. If I'm getting into the game for complete immersion I'll play a male character somewhat similar to me. If I'm playing a game like WoW where your characters stop being avatars and start just being a choice of a different playstyle, I'll mix it up.

this_sort_of_thing · 7 months

Oh please, you complain about the masculine overly macho males but nothing about the hyper sexualised women that are portrayed, you don't get normal in video games, even the normal chicks look like models.

criscothediscoman · 7 months

In Fallout 3 it was advantageous to play as a female. Femme Fatale was a perk that gave an %10 damage to male NPC's. Males could take the Lady Killer perk, but there are few females roaming the Capitol Wasteland.

atlangler · 7 months

I like to take on which ever role in an RPG seems to fit me the best. Since I'm a guy, I want to be represented as such in the video game I'm playing. It is as simple as that.

Maybe you're insecure about playing a masculine hero because you're not too masculine yourself?

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