Sigh. Welcome to all debates on The Gays with my family members.

recherchedutemps · 2012-05-24T21:06:55.677397+00:00

I tend to go nuclear on those who play the "Oh they'll marry animals/children next!"

"If you really feel that way, then I will never allow you around my children, because I can't trust you not to rape them. Oh, I'm sure you'll say they were OK with it - but when you say that 'if gay people can marry so can people and animals' it tells me you don't understand consent.

"And if you don't understand the basic idea of consent - that only human adults can consent to contracts and sex, then there is no way I'm letting a pedophile child rapist like you around a single child of mine.

"Unless, of course, you want to amend your opinion and let me know you understand the difference between 'consent' and 'unable to consent'?"

HouseSpeaker · 2012-05-24T20:39:57.409749+00:00

Nope. Couldn't have.

HouseSpeaker · 2012-05-24T19:50:48.441654+00:00

And the question is "Is it a realistic scenario for President Obama to have convinced Iraq, Congress, and other members to unilaterally change the agreements, treaties, contracts in place so the US troops to pull out faster?"

No. It wasn't. Not in a reality based world.

farewelltokings2 · 2012-05-24T19:46:31.256512+00:00

Last time I checked, the New Testament doesn't say they can ignore the "old laws" about homosexuality. Paul seems to point out that they still deserve death.

Doesn't seem that Yahweh was smart enough to actually amend his silly laws - Christians just assume they don't have to follow them (except the ones that let them keep slaves, hate gay people, etc).

Shweasel · 2012-05-24T19:32:41.644042+00:00

I love it when people misuse a logical fallacy.

"No true Scotsman" says "No person X would do Y. Person who is X did Y? Then they can not truly be X."

I'm saying "Person X, based on their beliefs, should not do Y - because it is in direct opposition of their beliefs Z. Person X does Y and claims to still be following belief Z. I claim Person X is a hypocrite."

It's possible to be a Christian, and a hypocrite. I claim that Christians who state they follow Jesus, then turn around and don't help the poor are hypocrites. It's not that all Christians are hypocrites, I'm specifically targeting the ones like Rick Perry - and those ones I can criticize all the day long as the hypocrites they are.

HouseSpeaker · 2012-05-24T19:29:46.075161+00:00

The one you ignored.

farewelltokings2 · 2012-05-24T19:29:26.730200+00:00

Last time I checked, we did amend the constitution and make slavery illegal. If you didn't know that, you might want to let those slaves in your back yard go. They're free now.

Shweasel · 2012-05-24T19:28:59.668289+00:00

No he's not. Go back and read what the caption underneath Rick Perry says again. Slowly this time.

He's putting Rick Perry's basic philosophy - reveling in executions, cutting services for the most needy in society - and comparing it against what, if you think Jesus was a real person, Jesus actually said, which is helping the poor, the sick, and the needy.

HouseSpeaker · 2012-05-24T19:27:05.828219+00:00

Read the above. Then you'll know why.

Shweasel · 2012-05-24T19:05:52.813351+00:00

I did not say "Give up all things." Keep up here.
Matthew 25:31-46:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. ”

It is impossible to say one is a Christian and a follower of Jesus, and think that you can ignore the poor, the sick, and the hungry. If you do, then you're not a follower of Jesus.

I think Colbert said something that goes - either state your a Christian and you're going to do what Jesus said about helping the poor, the sick, and the needy, or just say you're selfish and you don't want to actually do what the guy said. But you can't claim both.

HouseSpeaker · 2012-05-24T19:01:46.475017+00:00

Nope. I'm saying your argument is wrong.

HouseSpeaker · 2012-05-24T18:52:00.705566+00:00

You clearly don't know what a strawman is.

Shweasel · 2012-05-24T18:49:35.751483+00:00

I certainly can when their own book tells them to do it. You can't claim to follow Jesus, then turn around and not do the things that Jesus said to do. That makes you a not-follower of Jesus.

Shweasel · 2012-05-24T18:44:28.437131+00:00

I'll go with that. Upvote!

Shweasel · 2012-05-24T18:43:32.697308+00:00

I don't hate many people.

I have a serious disagreement with people who claim to be Christian, but don't help the poor, the hungry, and the naked. Because to do that, you have to really try hard to ignore everything that their Bible says Jesus talked about. Hell, even when I was raised a fundie I couldn't figure out the people who said "Well, I never give to the homeless because their just lazy." It was even worse because I was raised Mormon and there's a part in the Book of Mormon that says "If you say you won't help a poor person because you think they're lazy, you're the sinner."

The power of cognitive dissonance is amazing.

Chino_Blanco · 2012-05-24T18:27:02.148945+00:00

And she's not covering her hair!

Wait - sorry, wrong crazy religion. My bad.

KoryT · 2012-05-24T18:16:25.753958+00:00

Same way people still think "Prove it isn't real!" is an argument.

Shweasel · 2012-05-24T18:12:25.117246+00:00

There is a difference between "Christians", "socially conservative Christians", "fiscally conservative Christians", and "Ayn Rand fucktard Christians."

So what if I told you - it's possible to be talking about "Christians", and be referring to the ones in the OP's picture who pretty much feel that way? You know - like Rick Perry.

Shweasel · 2012-05-24T18:02:14.670885+00:00

No one said they did. But let's face it - it's a shorter stretch as a Christian to say "The gays are evil!" than it is for a conservative Christian to say "Making lots of money and saying fuck you to poor people is awesome!"

At least the former has support in the Bible. The latter is what happens when you worship Saint Ronald Reagan.

Shweasel · 2012-05-24T17:46:46.361734+00:00

That they feel that conservative christians are people who don't even know what their own religion is about and follow a philosophy completely counter to what their religion teaches?

HouseSpeaker · 2012-05-24T17:39:56.192872+00:00

Your argument is hardly fair - it ignores reality.

Shweasel · 2012-05-24T17:30:02.264488+00:00

Because he represents a popular mindset among modern conservative Christians.

I don't think the OP it talking about the man literally - just the millions who seem to think the same way as him.

farewelltokings2 · 2012-05-24T17:26:37.233793+00:00

Romans 1:

"27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Looks like Paul in the NT still loves himself hating on some homos and calling them to die.

farewelltokings2 · 2012-05-24T17:25:09.712547+00:00

Last time I checked, we still follow the Constitution. The Constitution is the law, the whippings were the actions of people who did things allowed by the law.

Later the law was changed - but if you read the New Testament, it didn't say anything about "OK we can ignore all of those old laws." If anything, Paul makes it pretty clear he still hates the homos and they "they got their due penalty." Aka - they got killed, and according to Paul that was how it should be.

farewelltokings2 · 2012-05-24T17:22:31.804566+00:00

Leviticus - and basically Paul's saying "Yeah, they got killed, there's their 'due penalty'." Or he's talking about eternal hellfire - either way, Paul was a dick.

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